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	<title>Comments on: Storage: How to size your LUNs?</title>
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	<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/</link>
	<description>Your P.I. on virtualization</description>
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		<title>By: VMware LUN Sizes &#171; Virtualised Reality</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>VMware LUN Sizes &#171; Virtualised Reality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 19:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-97</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68" rel="nofollow">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-96</guid>
		<description>Gabe,

I have been using 1 lun per 1 datastore and everything seems to be running great.  Do you see any real problems with doing this.  Also, what have you seen in array size on the SAN.  Do you see anything wrong with creating very large arrays and storing very small LUNs on each array.  Are there any best practices you care to mention?

Thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabe,</p>
<p>I have been using 1 lun per 1 datastore and everything seems to be running great.  Do you see any real problems with doing this.  Also, what have you seen in array size on the SAN.  Do you see anything wrong with creating very large arrays and storing very small LUNs on each array.  Are there any best practices you care to mention?</p>
<p>Thank you</p>
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		<title>By: Virtualization Short Take #10 - blog.scottlowe.org - The weblog of an IT pro specializing in virtualization, storage, and servers</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Virtualization Short Take #10 - blog.scottlowe.org - The weblog of an IT pro specializing in virtualization, storage, and servers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-95</guid>
		<description>[...] from the VC database. That&#8217;s handy. In an earlier article, Gabe also weighed in on storage sizing as well. This seems to be getting quite a bit of attention recently (gee, I can&#8217;t imagine [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from the VC database. That&#8217;s handy. In an earlier article, Gabe also weighed in on storage sizing as well. This seems to be getting quite a bit of attention recently (gee, I can&#8217;t imagine [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-92</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see how IOPS wouldn&#039;t be a major issue with this, unless you&#039;re running RAID groups with many spindles to give high IOPS capacity.

As a worst case if you did a 3 x 1TB disk RAID-5 RAID group and ran 30 VMs on it you&#039;ve got 30 servers contending for about 400 IOPS. Of course SAN cache performance etc alleviate this but surely there&#039;d still be a major bottleneck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t see how IOPS wouldn&#8217;t be a major issue with this, unless you&#8217;re running RAID groups with many spindles to give high IOPS capacity.</p>
<p>As a worst case if you did a 3 x 1TB disk RAID-5 RAID group and ran 30 VMs on it you&#8217;ve got 30 servers contending for about 400 IOPS. Of course SAN cache performance etc alleviate this but surely there&#8217;d still be a major bottleneck.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Steadman</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Steadman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 22:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-94</guid>
		<description>In my experience, you run into cluster filesystem locking problems long before you run out of IOPs on a good storage device.

I keep the lock contention at bay by limiting the number of VMs per VMFS to 25-30. With 30GB VMs, this works out to 750 - 900 GB per LUN.

Our onsite VMware TAM and our EMC storage reps actually recommend less, for busy VMs: 450 - 500 GB per LUN, with one VMFS per target.

Our VMs are never all active at the the same time, so we can get away with a higher density.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience, you run into cluster filesystem locking problems long before you run out of IOPs on a good storage device.</p>
<p>I keep the lock contention at bay by limiting the number of VMs per VMFS to 25-30. With 30GB VMs, this works out to 750 &#8211; 900 GB per LUN.</p>
<p>Our onsite VMware TAM and our EMC storage reps actually recommend less, for busy VMs: 450 &#8211; 500 GB per LUN, with one VMFS per target.</p>
<p>Our VMs are never all active at the the same time, so we can get away with a higher density.</p>
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		<title>By: Vikash Kumar Roy</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>Vikash Kumar Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 13:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-93</guid>
		<description>My experience with lun sizing depends upon your queue depth at the SP and at the FC. If you have set the queue depth to low and you are trying to oversubscribe this you will have potential performance problem. We uses standard lun size of 400GB and just ensure that we do not oversubscribe the queue depth and we have more than 30+ VMDK files on it. So as you mention earlier there is no thumb rule for lun size to determine and I have to agree with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My experience with lun sizing depends upon your queue depth at the SP and at the FC. If you have set the queue depth to low and you are trying to oversubscribe this you will have potential performance problem. We uses standard lun size of 400GB and just ensure that we do not oversubscribe the queue depth and we have more than 30+ VMDK files on it. So as you mention earlier there is no thumb rule for lun size to determine and I have to agree with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Storrs</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Storrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 23:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-91</guid>
		<description>Semi-related

http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2008/02/scalable-storag.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Semi-related</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2008/02/scalable-storag.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2008/02/scalable-storag.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 07:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Indeed. Lun sizing is a discussion that has been around for quite a while now.
I would recommend using the metrics as decribed above.
But I think another aspect needs to be considered.

Together with virtualization, we want to consolidate as much as possible without losing performance. In case of consolidation on LUN&#039;s one might consider the number of VM&#039;s that stop functioning when LUN data corruption occurs.
Last time we had a client with VM&#039;s on 1TB LUN&#039;s. One of those LUN&#039;s appeared to be corrupted. There we were lucky we could still migrate the lot to another LUN. Therefore I would recommend to not consolidate TOO much VM&#039;s onto a single datastore.

Should we therefore create lun&#039;s per VM? No absolutely not. But we should consider downtime, data loss and recovery in case of LUN corruption.
I do my sizing for my implementations around 300-500GB per LUN. But that&#039;s my experience :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed. Lun sizing is a discussion that has been around for quite a while now.<br />
I would recommend using the metrics as decribed above.<br />
But I think another aspect needs to be considered.</p>
<p>Together with virtualization, we want to consolidate as much as possible without losing performance. In case of consolidation on LUN&#8217;s one might consider the number of VM&#8217;s that stop functioning when LUN data corruption occurs.<br />
Last time we had a client with VM&#8217;s on 1TB LUN&#8217;s. One of those LUN&#8217;s appeared to be corrupted. There we were lucky we could still migrate the lot to another LUN. Therefore I would recommend to not consolidate TOO much VM&#8217;s onto a single datastore.</p>
<p>Should we therefore create lun&#8217;s per VM? No absolutely not. But we should consider downtime, data loss and recovery in case of LUN corruption.<br />
I do my sizing for my implementations around 300-500GB per LUN. But that&#8217;s my experience <img src='http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Storrs</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Storrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 06:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-89</guid>
		<description>One thing I didn&#039;t make clear:

...you have &quot;up to&quot; 75GB of useless data to replicate...

I understand most of these blocks will be empty and therefore ignored, but on long running VMs the pagefile will still build up substantially - I would hope the VSWP stays empty (or you have bigger immediate problems) so lets say an average of 20-30GB of data for our 30 VMS... still not insignificant - especially when you think about a company with a couple thousand VMs trying to replicate overseas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I didn&#8217;t make clear:</p>
<p>&#8230;you have &#8220;up to&#8221; 75GB of useless data to replicate&#8230;</p>
<p>I understand most of these blocks will be empty and therefore ignored, but on long running VMs the pagefile will still build up substantially &#8211; I would hope the VSWP stays empty (or you have bigger immediate problems) so lets say an average of 20-30GB of data for our 30 VMS&#8230; still not insignificant &#8211; especially when you think about a company with a couple thousand VMs trying to replicate overseas.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Storrs</title>
		<link>http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/storage-how-to-size-your-luns/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Storrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 05:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/?p=68#comment-88</guid>
		<description>One thing to point out is that the number of VMs per VMFS volume doesn&#039;t matter in and of itself, it&#039;s the number of *active* VMs.

Gabe, you forgot to leave any room on the LUN for free space. 20% is the recommended amount with 10% a bare minimum.

So your forumla should read more like this:

30 x (average disk size) + 30 x (average memory allocation) + 15% of (average disk size total) + 20% (as free space) = calculated LUN size.

Keith, my understanding was that the default queue depth for most FC HBAs (QLogic/Emulex) drivers in ESX is 64 (although some are 128) and VMware support usually doesn&#039;t want you playing with this
 without good reason.

As for what VMware has to say on the subject, 50 active VMs per LUN is the max suggested and 12 VMs is what VMware consuling used to say - but I think a lot of that dated back to ESX 2.x.

20-25 VMs per LUN is what I usually do.

Also as remote SAN replication is becoming more and more common in VMware environments I have a few other thoughts. Assuming we are talking about Windows VMs only here for a sec (since most everyone understands those) and that they only require 1 VMDK (C:). I would create 2 &quot;sister&quot; LUNs.

LUNA = VMDK &quot;C:&quot; drives for each of the virtual machines
LUNB = VSWP &amp; VMDK &quot;D:&quot; drives for each virtual machine (D: contains the Windows pagefile and anything else we don&#039;t need to replicate)

Then I would only have to do SAN replication on LUNA and could completely ignore LUNB for daily replication (although you would need to get the D: VMDKs created on the other end initially - this could be manual).

If you think about it, if you have 30 active VMs on those two LUNs (using your numbers from before) with an average of 12GB VMDKs and 1GB RAM you have 75GB of useless data to replicate (1GB vswp and 1.5GB pagefile VMDK - assuming 1.5x RAM times 30 VMs) over the WAN. This is also probably the data that will be changing most often (at least for the pagefiles). Why replicate it if you don&#039;t have to...

Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing to point out is that the number of VMs per VMFS volume doesn&#8217;t matter in and of itself, it&#8217;s the number of *active* VMs.</p>
<p>Gabe, you forgot to leave any room on the LUN for free space. 20% is the recommended amount with 10% a bare minimum.</p>
<p>So your forumla should read more like this:</p>
<p>30 x (average disk size) + 30 x (average memory allocation) + 15% of (average disk size total) + 20% (as free space) = calculated LUN size.</p>
<p>Keith, my understanding was that the default queue depth for most FC HBAs (QLogic/Emulex) drivers in ESX is 64 (although some are 128) and VMware support usually doesn&#8217;t want you playing with this<br />
 without good reason.</p>
<p>As for what VMware has to say on the subject, 50 active VMs per LUN is the max suggested and 12 VMs is what VMware consuling used to say &#8211; but I think a lot of that dated back to ESX 2.x.</p>
<p>20-25 VMs per LUN is what I usually do.</p>
<p>Also as remote SAN replication is becoming more and more common in VMware environments I have a few other thoughts. Assuming we are talking about Windows VMs only here for a sec (since most everyone understands those) and that they only require 1 VMDK (C:). I would create 2 &#8220;sister&#8221; LUNs.</p>
<p>LUNA = VMDK &#8220;C:&#8221; drives for each of the virtual machines<br />
LUNB = VSWP &amp; VMDK &#8220;D:&#8221; drives for each virtual machine (D: contains the Windows pagefile and anything else we don&#8217;t need to replicate)</p>
<p>Then I would only have to do SAN replication on LUNA and could completely ignore LUNB for daily replication (although you would need to get the D: VMDKs created on the other end initially &#8211; this could be manual).</p>
<p>If you think about it, if you have 30 active VMs on those two LUNs (using your numbers from before) with an average of 12GB VMDKs and 1GB RAM you have 75GB of useless data to replicate (1GB vswp and 1.5GB pagefile VMDK &#8211; assuming 1.5x RAM times 30 VMs) over the WAN. This is also probably the data that will be changing most often (at least for the pagefiles). Why replicate it if you don&#8217;t have to&#8230;</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
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